I Have a Problem With The Bible. I have read the entire thing..... I have listened to the entire Bible on multiple occasions. I have done complete verse studies and reviewed commentary from multiple sources. I have read parts of it in approx 20 different translations. I have it in Greek and in Hebrew. I read the Bible first before I consult any commentary or other sources to attempt to get out of the text what is intended on my own first, prior to looking at any other resources. My problem with the Bible is that after I read it, re-read it, and read it again........... listen to it, re-listen to it, and listen to it again
I believe the Bible to be true! Every word of it.... with out question....... even more, I know it to be true. It is infallible and complete. It is clear and understandable and with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit it is life changing to those that have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Why is this a problem you might ask? Well It now puts me in a position where I see compromise all around me. People, churches, entire denominations making choices and decisions that are in direct contrast with what the Bible says. On top of it nearly every major translation that has had any consortium of persons involved in the translation process gets it right. Regardless if it was translated with formal equivalence or dynamic equivalence in mind both methods have their merits. There is very little wiggle room for the whole translation error debate. There are so few errors in the translations and in such minute things that it is just ridiculous to debate it as the end result is the Bible is still truth and nothing but the truth.
The Bibles that have major translation errors are all documented, many even pulled from circulation for ONE word that changes the context of the verse so much that it becomes heresy. On top of that there is a list of published Bibles by specific organizations that have intended translation errors, to further their organizations own theological doctrine. (I will not go into all of these religious groups or occults in this post as it is far beyond the scope of anything I intend to cover here.)
If there is a specific word that has a bit more meaning in it or something that has been brushed over to lightly, there is a plethora of Greek dictionaries, Hebrew dictionaries, concordance etc to help squeeze every last bit of meaning needed out of the word. Not to mention commentaries out the wazoo to help you understand what you just read if you are struggling with it.
So here is my question........ Why are so many people, churches, and denominations bending, even breaking the scripture with weird hermeneutical approaches and questionable exegesis to justify what they believe or the actions they are taking in the name of Christ, the Church, the Gospel, relevance, inclusion........ etc. add any number of "in the name of's" from this point on.
On top of that there are a whole group of " ists " that are willing to fight to the death that their theology is right and the other persons is wrong, calvinist, cessationist , dispensationist, arminianist, and a long list of others to go along with that instead of focusing on being " ians "! Christians. Instead of focusing on the core beliefs and doctorine that make us Christians we get off on all these side notes and I have actually met people that are down right nasty about these arguable details of how God works, to the point of not wanting to associate with others that don't hold to their particular " ist " view. So if the Bible says this -
Philippians 2:1-11 (ESV)
1 So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, 2 complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. 3 Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:1-11 (MSG)
1 If you've gotten anything at all out of following Christ, if his love has made any difference in your life, if being in a community of the Spirit means anything to you, if you have a heart, if you care— 2 then do me a favor: Agree with each other, love each other, be deep-spirited friends. 3 Don't push your way to the front; don't sweet-talk your way to the top. Put yourself aside, and help others get ahead. 4 Don't be obsessed with getting your own advantage. Forget yourselves long enough to lend a helping hand. 5 Think of yourselves the way Christ Jesus thought of himself. 6 He had equal status with God but didn't think so much of himself that he had to cling to the advantages of that status no matter what. 7 Not at all. When the time came, he set aside the privileges of deity and took on the status of a slave, became human! 8 Having become human, he stayed human. It was an incredibly humbling process. He didn't claim special privileges. Instead, he lived a selfless, obedient life and then died a selfless, obedient death—and the worst kind of death at that: a crucifixion.9 Because of that obedience, God lifted him high and honored him far beyond anyone or anything, ever,
10 so that all created beings in heaven and on earth—even those long ago dead and buried—will bow in worship before this Jesus Christ, 11 and call out in praise that he is the Master of all, to the glorious honor of God the Father.
I have been including text from The Message a lot lately. I find that it kind of just breaks it down for those that seem to get lost some where between the number at the start of the verse and the period at the end of the verse. I don't mean anything negative behind it but I am convinced that many people just skim over the verse and are not going for comprehension when they read it.
So here is what has been eating at me...... Some time ago I had a discussion with an individual about Matthew 18: 1 - 35. Pretty much the whole chapter was in play at some point in the discussion. During that conversation I focused in on a part of it that I felt pertained specifically with the circumstances that were the actual subject matter of the conversation. What I focused in on was Matthew 18: 10 - 14 the parable of the lost sheep.
Matthew 18:10-14 (ESV)
10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.11 12 What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray? 13 And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray. 14 So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.11 12 What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray? 13 And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray. 14 So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
Note: some translations eliminate verse 11 or add verse 11 which ever angle you choose to view it from.
The topic at hand was believers, fellow brothers and sisters in Christ that leave the fellowship of believers (the flock or church if you will) for any negative reason regardless of if it is the believers lack of understanding or a legitimate complaint. If it is for this reason I stated that I felt it was a failure and that Matthew 18 demanded a response, that we were to go after them to find them, to resolve, to bring them back regardless of the results we were required to try. The exception would be for a positive reason, moving to a new location for job, family, etc. Moving to another church or ministry opportunity that they feel directed to go, church plant, evangelism, ministry opportunity in another church etc.
The response that I received was along this line: I think the parable of the lost sheep is a good parable and it pertains to going after non-believers or those that are lost. Really? did I totally misread that passage. Was I confused? Had I missed the context that was intended. After a comment about not going after them, that I realized was a direct quote from a book that I had just read. I let the subject drop not out of real concern that I got it wrong but that I obviously wasn't making my point or it was being avoided. I went on about my business.
After sometime I started an expository study of those verses for my own clarification, using the following resources:
Bibles
American Standard Version
Bible In Basic English
Darby's Translation
English Standard Version
Greek New Testament
God's Word
Holman Christian Standard Bible
International Standard Version
King James Version
Mace New Testament
Moffatt's New Testament
Centenary Translation of the New Testament
The Message
New King James Version
New Living Translation, Second Edition
Wesley New Testament
Weymouth New Testament
Young's Literal Translation
Commentaries
Adam Clarke's Commentary
The Apologetics Study Bible
Barnes' Notes on the New Testament
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
Matthew Henry Concise
Matthew Henry Unabridged
The People's New Testament
Vincent's Word Studies in the New Testament
I think that pretty much covers it. Well as you can see it took some time to read through all of this and find out what it means as apposed to going on my own understanding at this point. There was clearly a possibility that I was wrong in my understanding. After all being family in Christ with this person it was not worth allowing separation or hostility to enter in because there was a lack of understanding on my part, even if I had been totally right there should be no hostility coming from me...... not as a Christian. So here is what I have learned after going through this study. Awe man would you look at that...... We have just run out of time! That means I am going to have to put everything that I learned on the next post. Stay tuned I learned a LOT.
In the mean time feel free to give me your understanding of these scripture passages.
Some Thoughts on -
ReplyDeleteMatthew 18: 1-35 – The parable of the lost sheep.Reflected in this is perhaps a 'dual' concept application.
If the 'sheepfold' is the church, the entire flock is representative of all humanity, the fact that one has strayed from the ideal which God has and the Shepherd (Jesus) is bringing total humanity to the fold, then He does go looking for the 'one' that has not made it to the shelter of the fold.
On the other hand, if the 'flock' is representative of believers and the fold' are representative of the church (small c) then the fact that one has strayed becomes the 'believer' that has become distracted and as a result has fallen prey to a 'status' of separation and backsliddedness. Of course the Shepherd (Jesus) is constantly aware of the status of all and the reality that 'one' has become separated. It is evident that the Shepherd (Jesus) is not a 'stranger' to the sheep and He--the Shepherd--is confident that those in the fold are safe, consequently He goes after the one that needs His attention. No human is a 'stranger' to the Shepherd except in the context of a condition of intentional sin or rebellion.
In reality the Person of the Shepherd is pivotal because it is the 'actions' of the Shepherd by way of extra effort in either of the above scenario's that becomes the focal point. Neither the 'sinner' nor the 'backslider' has any hope outside of Christ and His divine commitment to their ultimate safety. His awareness and concern is such that He does not ignore even the 'one' in contrast to 99 inside the fold.
We are not given any information with regard to the 'lost sheep' being rebellious, nor are we given any information as to the circumstances that led to the 'separation'. By way of hypothesis it is possible to develop a case for either, or both concepts.
Does this 'muddy' the water or what?
Hello Anonymous, for the sake of brevity and not wanting to address specifics of your post that I would have questions about.
ReplyDeleteLets say you are right and thus being right that it is a dual concept application then that would infer that the person I was having the original conversation with was not aware of the second concept that you presented and I presented. They were only aware of the concept of the lost sheep as a lost sinner separated from God.
Or
That they were aware of the other concept and chose to avoid it for what ever reason.
either way it does not discount either approach.
Perhaps when we think of the Parable of the lost sheep we muddy the waters ourself by combining the instances of both Matthew 18:10-14 and Luke 15:1-7 and there may be a little bit of inclusion of John 10:1-21 as you refer to Jesus as not being a stranger to the sheep.
Anyway thanks for your feed back I appreciate your insight. Give a little thought to my next post and let me know what you think.
In Christ